RMD is the acronym for Required Minimum Distribution.
Now, it’s also known by its friend, MRD (Minimum Required Distribution).
I get clients who twist up all the words. It’s like, we’ve got the words. Let’s just use them in any order.
It means taking money from your pre-tax account so that Uncle Sam can get a cut.
Transcript: What is Required Minimum Distribution?
Hi, my name is Annette Bau (bah oo), your host of the Wealth Inside and Out® Podcast. I’m a Certified Financial Planner™ and founder of The Millionaire Insider®.
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What is Required Minimum Distribution also known as RMD?
Sean Fitz is going to share some valuable insight on RMD, as well as how to make the most of your retirement and tax planning, and your distributions, which you are required by law to take.
I’m so excited. So, let’s dive in.
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Today you’re going to learn some practical ways to save more money, including simple ways to pay less on expenses. You will also learn ways to earn money and save more on your savings.
Let’s dive into
What is Required Minimum Distribution?
Welcome everyone. I want to introduce you to Sean Fitts. He is one of the advisors that is certifying under me. So welcome, Sean.
Hi Annette. I am excited to be here today.
I’m so excited to have you.
I have known Sean for several years and he’s a good guy.
He’s the kind of guy that, if you needed something, you could rely on him. You just have that feeling.
And I’ve known you long enough to know how you show up.
I knew Sean when he was thinking about getting out of the business.
And I remember getting off that call and thinking I’ve got to perform to help him perform so he doesn’t go out of business. I knew your heart was in the right place.
You made a couple of major shifts, right? Do you want to elaborate on that a little bit more before we dive into technical RMD?
Philosophy and Insight
Annette, I love what I do. And I love serving people. I made some changes and some tweaks to how we now grow the business by reaching out to people in a more open manner, and clients responded. They stepped up. And we’ve grown. We’ve grown not just with clients, but we’ve grown as a team as well.
Well, and you’ve made a shift. One of the things you talked about is the internal shift you made. I think this applies even to people who are looking at working on their finances. So much of our success when it comes to money is our internal growth. It requires that we get that primal (toddler, limbic) brain under control and start to think with our prefrontal cortex.
Would you agree?
It makes a huge difference, and it makes a difference in how we respond to others as much as anything else. But responding to ourselves, being open with ourselves about things, and being willing to change is a key part of life, being willing to grow.
Isn’t it and sometimes that’s hard, right?
This is how I’ve always done it. I don’t want to grow.
At any age. It’s hard to do.
Sean lives in North Carolina.
He comes from a working-class family. His and my background is very similar. His dad was in the refrigerator business. My dad was in the plumbing business. So, it’s kind of interesting.
He served our country, which to me is huge. And he comes from a very meager background, not very much money.
I think, in a lot of ways, those of us who didn’t come from money have a very different perspective of money than people who do come from money.
It’s helpful when somebody’s helping you from the standpoint of managing your money and helping you to succeed financially. He’s just done some amazing things. I don’t know if you want to add anything else.
Sean’s Work History
You were a mortgage lender, right?
I did, for 15 years, yeah.
For 15 years, he was a mortgage lender until he transitioned into the financial advisory business.
And one of the things that I can remember when I first met him. We had a conversation about the shift from the mortgage business, which is much more transactional, to financial advising, which is much more personal.
One thing a lot of people, even companies, do not get is how important that personal connection is. I don’t know if you want to add anything to that before we dive in.
It really is about relationships, making sure that people know how much you care, not how much you know.
Yeah, I love that.
So, in addition to being married for 32 years and having four children.
I have three, and I feel like I can’t handle it. That’s amazing. But the other thing that I think that’s awesome is the fact that you prioritize your family.
Serving Women and Widowhood
You make decisions with your family, and I can relate to that. It’s just so important to understand the two. And I also think one of the things that I love is that you realize that women are underserved, and you started focusing on serving women.
Very much so. We had some client experiences, especially around young widows. People always think widows are 80-year-old grandmas. This widow was a 40-year-old woman who had no idea what was going on with the money.
Yeah, that’s just cringeworthy, right? It’s kind of like, oh, I hope it’s going well.
So today, we’re talking about a topic that can be overwhelming. We will do our best to make it easier to understand.
But it’s a question I hear all the time. It’s like, what is Required Minimum Distribution (RMD)? And I find it fascinating that even this far into my journey, doing this for 34 years, almost 35 years, I still have clients saying, now what’s RMD? I’m like, okay, you’ve been taking it for 20 years.
What is Required Minimum Distribution (RMD)?
By now, you should know what RMD is. But I think it’s just something where people know they’ve got to do it. They know it’s something that has to do with the government, but oftentimes they’re really confused about it.
Today, we’re going to answer all those questions and dispel the mystery behind them.
Sean is the perfect guy to do that. So, let’s just start with the basics. Some of you may already know this, but for some people who don’t, let’s start.
What does it mean?
That’s a great question, Annette. I still get it routinely from people who have been taking them.
Like, what is required minimum distribution or RMD again?
RMD simply means required minimum distribution. Now, it’s also known by its friend, MRD, Minimum Required Distribution.
I get clients who twist up all the words. It’s like, well, we’ve got the words. Let’s just use them in any order.
Understanding Pretax Dollars
But it means taking money from your pretax account so that Uncle Sam can get a cut.
When you say pretax, can you explain that to people?
Oh, definitely. Most people have saved money in an IRA, 401, TSP, 403B, or any one of those tax acronyms. This means they put money into retirement savings that have never been taxed.
And now it’s time to take the money out, which is where the required minimum distribution comes into play.
Age Considerations for Your Distribution
It is age-driven, based on life expectancy, and a minimum amount that must be taken during the distribution period. And they changed it again just this year. It used to be that 70 and a half was a magic number.
And who came up with the half? Are we toddlers? Then they went to 72, and it was 72 for about three years. Now it’s 73. And in ten more years or so, it’s going to go to 74, 75. So we’ll keep getting great questions about when am I supposed to take my RMD.
At the end of the day, Uncle Sam said, “If you’re not taking at least some money from this account. There is a minimum calculated RMD we’ve got that says we want you to take some money from your retirement account every year again so that we can tax it because we’ve never gotten any tax money off those funds.”
Well, it’s funny you say that about 70 1/2 because I remember I was at a lecture, and a tax attorney said they had done a lot of research on how they came up with the rules. What they could determine is it depended on who was in Congress because it was like an earmark that benefited the people voting on it. And I thought, how interesting.
But it was like, okay, so somebody didn’t want to have to take it because they were 70, and they thought, okay, if we can push it to 70 and a half, I can wait another year. And I thought that was so funny.
So anyway, I thought that was kind of funny, but it used to be 70 ½, like April 15 following your 70-and-a-half birthday. Then it was 72. And now it’s actually when you become 73. So, if you’re 73 on January 1, you’ve got to take it for that year.
If You Wait to Take Your Benefit
You still can wait until April 1 of the following year.
But then do you have to take two?
When Taking Two Distributions Makes Sense
You would have to see there’s always a trick to it. They’ve thought that through. Yes, you would have to take two, and there are circumstances where that would benefit someone.
I had someone last year who worked half a year, then retired, and he was of age. As a result of what he had earned last year versus what he would earn this year, which was no working income and consulting, we chose to defer it, and he took two this year.
And it worked in his favor.
Yeah. And I think that’s a great point, and that’s really why you need an advisor to look at it and make sure that that is the right thing to do. It’s interesting because I have heard so many people say, oh, I don’t have to take it until next year. But a lot of them don’t realize they have to take two. And I think those are the little details that a lot of times people don’t know.
The most important thing to walk away from this conversation is that you’ve got to make sure you know all the details of what the current laws are, because there’s probably not a lot of forgiveness if you mess this up, right?
IRS Guidelines for Required Minimum Distributions
Well, Uncle Sam’s not worried about it. They’ve got some guidelines in place to help you.
If you take too much or too little, they’re just going to take more taxes. Now, if you think about it, if you take two in one year, that just means they sort of doubled up on how much tax revenue they were going to get that year from you.
Penalties If You Don’t Take Your Required Minimum Distribution
What happens if somebody doesn’t take it and they’re supposed to?
That is a fair question. Now, oddly enough, I was surprised Congress changed that rule this year as well. And it went from a 50% penalty before, which I thought was a bit egregious. Now it’s 25% of what you should have taken.
So, if you were supposed to take $10,000 and you didn’t take any, now you’d have a penalty of $2,500. However, they had a little forgiveness in the new plan. If you forget and you fix it quickly, we’ll only charge you a 10% penalty. Isn’t that generous?
Real World – What is Required Minimum Distribution
Well, and I’ll say this much, and again, I am not a tax attorney. I’m not a CPA. But I will say this much. I have seen this throughout my career, namely because of my CPA sharing with me. I’ve had a couple of clients where they thought they took their required distribution, and they didn’t.
In some cases, they have done it for like 30 or 40 years. I’m like, oh yeah, they took it. But wait a minute, these numbers are not adding up.
And interestingly enough, I don’t know now with the new law if they’re going to change it. When it was 50%, I know they were a little more flexible.
Like if it was your first error, there was a lot more likelihood that you’d be forgiven. Now, again, I am not recommending that you forget, but I do know in the past, they’ve been a little forgiving.
Do you have any insight on that?
I have seen where they’ve offered waivers at various times, but it’s pretty rare. And the likelihood with the new change is they’re trying to eliminate even having to have that conversation by saying, look, we’ll drop it to ten if you just act on it quickly.
I think you’re going to get into a bit of trouble if you do not stay on top of it.
Yeah, especially now because it’s only 10%. When it was 50%, it was a problem.
Brutal. I will say there is a reason that someone might not take it even at the risk of a 10% or 25% penalty. If it’s a down market and you think the account can recover, that could be a strategic move to not take it and let the money recoup before you take some money out.
Always Consult with a Qualified Advisor
Interesting. Yeah, those are all considerations. And I think the one thing I would leave with is you need to consult with a qualified advisor. Meaning these are things that you just don’t want to mess around with.
If you are spending the hours needed to make sure you’re up on everything and you look at the pros and cons of each situation, and you then feel comfortable making the decision, great.
For most people, myself included, it’s just a lot because there are just are a lot of moving parts, and it seems like it continues to change, and it’s hard to stay up on all of the rules.
I would agree. One last caveat would always be to consult with your tax professional as well before you make a strategic move like that.
Yeah, that’s great advice.
Deferring Your Asset to Heirs
You kind of answered this, but just give us another view. So why is it that they require you to take a minimum distribution at that age versus letting you defer it and then pass it on, say, to your heirs?
It’s a great question. We hear it a lot.
I don’t need the money. My pension is enough, my Social Security is enough, I’ve got other money, whatever. And there are plenty of people that just don’t need it at all.
At the end of the day, Congress, inside the IRS code, has put together these rules that say, look, we’re going to let you save some money and defer the taxes on it for decades, literally decades.
Think about it. You start putting money in your 401K at 20 years old, get your contribution matched by your employer, and it’s growing, and it’s growing and it’s growing. Nobody’s ever paid taxes on that money.
And Uncle Sam needs to get a piece of that pie so that they can pay for all the fun things out there.
Like reading in the news lately, they’re going to need some money because we’ve got some problems coming up, right?
They do. And literally, at the end of the day, taxation is the way the country is funded for its major things, whatever we need for federal government purposes.
This is just one of those buckets that they take some tax money from. It’s simply paying your fair share. You’ve never paid taxes on this money. It’s been sitting tax deferred for years and years and years. And it’s time they get taxes on it.
And we’ll touch on what does it mean for your heirs? Because most people do die with some money left over in that bucket. And that’s a little different than what we have covered.
Different RMD Rules for Beneficiaries
Yeah, let’s touch on that for a second.
So, let’s just say that somebody dies. They have X amount of money left in their IRA. Most people have an IRA, and some would have other accounts. And what happens if they leave that to their spouse or their children?
IRS Rules For Spouses and Children
That’s a good question because that is complex.
Spouses get the best treatment. And they have an opportunity to roll it into their account and continue to extend either the deferment or drag out how long they take the money out.
Spouses have the most beneficial rules because Congress recognizes we want to protect spouses to some degree and not bankrupt them, so to speak.
But one of the things that was recognized in 2019 changes that came out starting when someone died in 2020 or after.
If you’re a non-spouse, inheritor, or beneficiary, Uncle Sam says, “Listen, this was not intended for you to stretch out for another 30 or 40 years. These are not funds for you. It was for the person before, and we want you to take the money out a lot quicker.”
So, there are some ten-year rules, there are some current rules, there are some five-year rules.
That’s kind of what Congress is after, generically speaking.
So, the wife has her lifetime.
Yes, the wife has her lifetime.
That one’s the most flexible.
And then ten years is normal. And interestingly enough, that’s what it used to be for trusts. A lot of people would leave it to their kids and not a trust because a trust forced it to be taken in ten years.
But now it’s ten years. Whether it’s a trust or it’s your children.
Five Year Rule
There’s a slight rule of depending on when you got it.
If you don’t take any distributions at all, you would have to take it all out in five years as a trust would. A trust now is five years.
Okay, but repeat that.
When is it five years? I didn’t catch that. Can you say that again?
When it is a non-human? I’m going to use the word human beneficiary as the main component for five.
Okay, gotcha. Okay, gotcha. That’s good to know.
I’m learning stuff here, too.
When Do You Have to Take the Distribution?
Now, there is a tweak that is still being debated by the IRS. Do you have to take some distribution during the ten years? Just have it empty by the 10th year.
And that has recently come up? That is not clear yet.
Well, I was just at a tax planning workshop where that topic came up, and they were saying, yeah, you just have to take it out within ten years. That was their argument.
They were thinking, we’ll just wait until ten years, and then the 10th year take it all out. That would be something you’d want clarified.
It’s going to need to be clarified.
And like I said, I’ve read mixed information because I do emphasize tax planning in our business model. I’ve read very mixed information even in the last week or two as I was looking up different information for clients.
Roth IRAs and 401ks
Now, there’s one huge exception that we haven’t touched on, and that’s if it’s a Roth IRA or Roth 401K, which was recently amended as well in 2022.
Since there’s never been a required minimum distribution inside that, you can certainly let it grow for the whole ten years and then take it all out in one lump sum because it’s not going to be taxed either.
But now, do you have to take it out? So, if it’s inherited, you must take it out?
Yes, if it’s inherited, you have to take it out in 10 years. Sorry, I was still in the inherited.
There’s just a lot of moving parts, right? Is there any situation where somebody can avoid RMD?
Exceptions to the Rules
There are always exceptions to the rule, right? Isn’t that really what we are looking for: exceptions and little cheat sheets?
Currently, the only way someone can cheat, I think the word avoid might be a misnomer. They can continue to defer that RMD past age 73.
If you’re still working full-time and it’s your money. You’re still working full-time at a company where you own less than 5% of the company.
Oh, interesting. Wow.
So, if you’re the big owner or somebody, too bad, you’re still going to have to take your RMD at 73 now.
But if you just work there, you’re just Joe Susie worker, and you’re still in the you’re 75 years old. You do not have to take an RMD amount out yet. You can continue to push that monkey down the road.
And that’s if you’re full-time.
I believe that it is full-time. Yes.
Yeah, that would make sense. But again, these are all things that if you’re considering you always have to check with an advisor because things change, and so it might be full-time now, then it changes to part-time. You just want to know the facts.
So, once you take your RMD, obviously, if you need the money, you’re going to spend it. But what if you don’t need it?
What do people typically do with their RMD?
Probably most people spend it. Right.
I love it, and I get a great mix of that. It’s the first of the year we’re talking to people about what they are going to do with their RMD this year. When do they want to take it?
Already, we’re having those conversations, and we’ve gotten Disney trips that are talked about. We’ve got three rooms that need to be finished. And then we have a few people who say, “No, just transfer the money over to my other account. Let’s keep it working because I just don’t need it.”
Right. We pay the taxes, and the difference goes to whatever kind of thing is on their mind.
Well, and I think that going to Disneyland, you need your entire RMD.
It is so expensive. From the time my children were little, to when they were in their junior and senior years in high school, we went over to Disneyland. And I remember thinking, it is so expensive.
How are these families affording this? Because you could look at these families and go, they have been saving this for an entire year.
And I think it’s like things have gotten so expensive that sometimes it’s hard to be able to save that money, even though that’s really the ideal thing to do if you don’t need the money. Right?
It is. It’s good. But I think what’s been nice is to hear grandparents because we’re talking about people’s RMDs.
We’re talking about people in their 70s. Yeah. And so, what we are seeing is they’re going, you know what? I’m going to spend this on a family trip, and we’re going to take all the kids and grandkids and go do whatever it is that they’re thinking about.
And what they’re doing is they’re creating memories.
It was never about the money anyway.
It’s about let’s create some more memories. Let’s enjoy some family time; let’s take some pictures.
If you’re okay financially, I think something like that is ideal. And there’s the whole concept of giving some of the money to your kids while you’re living so you can see them enjoying it or grandkids as compared to waiting until you die.
I think you can also see which ones you should probably put some provisions in your trust on, so they don’t get a lot of money because they get it, and it’s gone.
I have one child that’s so aware of money, and I have another one that just thinks our money is his money. And it’s just fascinating how they were raised with the same values. It’s just fascinating.
It’s usually the younger they get, the more entitled they feel.
Well, mine’s actually the opposite. The older son is like, this is how it is, and this is what we should do with our money.
And it’s like, no, this is our money. You’re a broke college student, so let’s get that real clear.
I love that.
Yeah. It’s just fascinating, though, to watch.
Multiple IRA Accounts
Okay, so let’s talk about if you have multiple IRAs. I have a situation right now with a client who has so many different accounts. They have a tax-deferred retirement account, such as a 403B and a 401K, from previous employers. They’ve got an individual retirement account (IRA), a Sep IRA, and a Roth IRA. I’m like, oh, my gosh, it’s no wonder you can’t remember all your assets.
What do you recommend when a person is in a situation like that?
There are some rare instances where someone might keep some separate accounts. And one of the rarest of, and probably maybe the only reason to do it. Here in North Carolina, we have what’s called the Bailey Act. This is for people who worked before a certain date for the state. If their money is still in the state 401K or 403B, they don’t pay state income taxes on those dollars.
And so that’s a type of exception where I could see someone saying, “No, I need to keep those monies separate. And I’ve got my other traditional IRAs and other retirement accounts from other places, but that money, I’ll never pay state income taxes on.”
An IRA must have its own RMD. And you do create where you must take an RMD from each of those accounts. As compared to having four IRAs you accumulated at different times at different places.
Then, you can choose to take all your RMD from one IRA, or you can take a partial from each. You can mix and match and have more choices.
But if you have it with multiple types of retirement accounts, then you’re going to have to take one from each, and you have to track that. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) is watching that. You’re going to get a notice, somebody’s telling.
Yeah. Well, and one of the things that we do when the person has a lot for various reasons, like, sometimes they have to like you say, there are various reasons. What we always do is just make sure that the CPA also confirms the numbers, because especially when it was a 50% penalty, the risk of that is so great, you don’t want to be messing around.
And now, again, you have to check with your advisor. But I would pretty much guarantee that now that they’ve reduced the penalty, they’re going to be a lot less lenient than they have in the past.
Yeah, they’re definitely like, it’s a done deal now.
You’re going to get slapped one way or the other because we’re going to get some extra money out of it. We don’t have to play the game.
Oh, this has been so helpful. Boy, I feel like I have gotten a PhD in RMDs. So, is there anything else that you’d like to share with our listeners or anything along those lines?
I think the biggest thing for most people is to get a handle on where your money is and what it’s doing.
I’m not saying everyone should consolidate. That depends on each person’s situation and what’s appropriate for them. However, I can say if you don’t keep meticulous track, you can lose track of some money. I had a client several years ago call me up.
He’d been a client for four or five years, calls me up, hey, I found $75,000. I forgot about it in my old 401K. How did you forget that?
Well, I mean, like 20 years ago, there was $7 trillion unclaimed assets, and the only reason it was only $7 trillion is every seven years, it reverts to the state.
There is so much money unclaimed, and if you can’t remember it, your heirs are not going to. And now that we’re so electronic, people aren’t getting paper statements, so if somebody dies, you’ll never know about it. And I think that’s something that a lot of people don’t realize. This is why it’s so important to have a financial plan and know where your assets are.
The Difference Between a Roth IRA and an IRA
I have one more question. I’m sure some people on the call are curious. You talked about a Roth, and you talked about an IRA. What is the difference between a Roth IRA and an IRA?
I love it. That’s a common question, and I’ll make it pretty easy.
An IRA is sort of like if you’re going to plant an apple tree and as the apples come off of it, Uncle Sam gets to come in and take a bite of every apple you pull off that tree. That’s a regular IRA. With a Roth IRA, he’s taking a little bite off the seed, but you get all the apples on the tree all to yourself.
So that’s the way I kind of show the two differences.
If I understand correctly, so with an IRA, then basically, they’ve not paid tax on that money, and it’s gone and started growing. And then when they start taking it, they pay tax.
But with a Roth, they’ve already paid tax on the money that they’re funding it with.
That’s right. Yeah.
So that’s the seed. Oh, that’s a good analogy. All right.
Sean’s Contact Info
Well, this has been such a wealth of information. So, I want to say if you want to learn more about Sean, go to https://themillionaireinsider/sean-fitts.
I’m so thankful that you have shared this, and I think you have dispelled a lot of questions and even answered some that I was not aware of.
So, I want to thank you so much for your insight. This has been just a wealth of information. Love it.
Annette, I love being a resource and love working with you. You do such a fantastic job.
Well, thank you.
I think I do such a fantastic job because I surround myself with really smart people. People always come to me, and I respond, “Check with one of my advisors. They’re so smart.”
But anyway, it’s great to know you on a personal level and to just know how much you truly care, not only about your family but about your clients. And that’s something that I just think in our financial services industry is so needed because it’s so easy to say, yeah, I care about you. But from a perspective, I’m more concerned about myself and my agenda.
I don’t ever get that feeling from you or any of my advisors.
And so, I want to just tell you, I do appreciate that.
Recap – What is Required Minimum Distribution
So there you have it.
Wasn’t that great? We learned so much about what is an RMD, who must take a distribution, and the different ages. It’s gone up to 73. When you can avoid it, what the situation is, which is not very often, and what to do if you have multiple accounts.
So, we’ve got the scenario where even though the penalties are down to 10%, you still have to make sure that you are looking strategically at what makes sense based on your situation and income for the year. Or if you should wait and take two distributions out instead of one.
All those things do require some analysis. We talked about the difference between an IRA and a Roth IRA, which is important, and then what to do if you have kind of a mess where you have just a ton of accounts.
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It stands for Next Step Finance. It’s the next best step of what you need to do so you can avoid an NSF notice in the future. Again, https://themillionaireinsider.com/nsf.
The number of women who were not broke or poor while working or married is staggering. Our mission for The Wealth Inside and Out® Podcast is to ensure you have critical information for you, your family, your friends, and anyone willing to listen to it and apply it to create a financially free life you love.
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Thank you so much for joining me for What is Required Minimum Distribution?
I’m Annette Bau (Bah oo), your host.
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Bye for now.